Tailoring a cheap but wearable suit

Inspired by a friend who asked me about getting a suit tailored here in Shanghai, here are my recommendations for getting a tailor made suit. Note that I'm not an expert, just someone who has tried tailoring in Hoi An, Vietnam (the place to go for cheap tailoring, but also the place where you learn that cheap tailoring is exactly that... cheap!) and here in Shanghai. Plus someone who loves Project Runway. So what I know could fit into a matchbox. But I do have a (perhaps overly) critical eye/pen/keyboard when it comes to describing pretty much anything, which I believe is helpful in not getting too ripped off.

General points
1. Pick a fairly plain pattern. They cannot make anything too far away from the stock jacket/pants/skirt pattern that they use, so it's better to get a plain cut which they are less likely to stuff up.
2. Note that the samples shown are usually better versions that they got made by someone who actually is a real tailor and knows what they are doing, it is likely what you get will be LOWER QUALITY than what is shown. That makes it difficult to choose a tailor based on the materials in store. I don't feel I've ever been particularly successful in finding great tailors, as even the usual rule of "if there's a long line, it's good" doesn't really hold up. Recommendations from friends who know what they're talking about are VERY useful. Total beginners who somehow got something they liked are NOT good recommendees, but better than nobody I suppose. Your fashionista friend studying design who knows about clothes (and whose personal style you admire) is a better option. Try looking online too.
3. In China the people who own the stores are probably not the same people who make the clothes (gets shipped off to their little sweatshop, if you can find a tailor who makes things him/herself that'd be great, but note that it usually takes longer to get that done), so make sure you get them to DRAW (or write, or ideally both) exactly what you've described to them for the suit.
4. If, when you return for the fitting, you are unhappy with the result, the good news is that after several revisions you can usually end up with something wearable (if not exactly what you wanted in the first place). This is where point 1 comes in though, if you make your designer plainer and more similar to their standard pattern, your suit will turn out better. Revisions can only do so much. They can make sleeves fit better, they can make pants fit properly, they can clean up the lapels etc. But if it's just really ugly, there's not much that can be done about that...
5. In true China style, if you aren't happy, complain and get them to fix it. :o) Be specific: ie the sleeves are too long, these buttons need to be readjusted/sit higher etc. If you have that fashionista friend mentioned above, ask them to come with you!
6. If you have no recommendations and can't find anything useful online AND (most importantly) if you don't mind being a guinea pig, find a place that looks good to you. Although it's unlikely, you might find a diamond in the rough. Note that most places will probably be "the rough" and not the diamond though... I haven't had a great deal of luck with this method, but if you do try it, maybe start with something smaller/cheaper like a shirt and see if you like how they make that.

Materials
7. The point to be made about materials is that if you don't really know good quality fabric over bad quality, you will find it more difficult to know whether you're being ripped off for "the best Italian cashmere". However, it's pretty likely that the store owners are lying. I read somewhere that the really high-end fabrics do not exist in Asia so you can't expect them. My suggestion (from someone who is also not that great with fabrics) is to just go with the print/pattern that you like, feel the fabric (you should at least be able to tell the really cheap and nasty synthetic fabrics from something a little bit nicer) and if you're satisfied with it, then go with that. Don't buy fabrics that are already pilling (those crappy little balls that gather on fabrics) or shoddy looking/dirty. Obvious enough right?

Jacket
8. From watching Project Runway I now know that jackets are one of the hardest pieces to make. The point about keeping this plain is particularly important as you can't get couture from an el cheapo tailor.
9. Small changes are ok i.e. different collar or lapels, where the buttons go on the jacket or how many buttons you want should work out. But make sure they write it down/draw it ala point 3 so you end up with what changes you asked for.
10. Get someone else to go with you on your fittings so that they can see what the back of your jacket looks like. Make sure they're honest about it and critical and if possible know something about clothes...
11. Get it lined. Just make sure you ask for lining because otherwise you MIGHT not get,... it's always best to make more requests than less.

Pants
12. Pants are easier to make so they shouldn't struggle too much. However you need to watch out for things like them making the pants way too straight leg/high waisted (you do NOT want nerd pants). When they're measuring you for the pants you will be able to see how long they are making them, and how wide etc. So if you wanted wide legged pants and the width around your leg they're measuring seems pretty tight, you can tell them to make it wider. They'll try to argue but just fight back. You can always get the pants let in, but you can't really let it out that much.
13. I also recommend asking for lining because it means the pants won't be itchy if you got a woolen material. Note that you might not get it (I didn't even though I asked for it...)

Skirts
14. Basic skirts, best to go A-line. The fashion for skirt styles in China is a bit different to Western countries, so basic is good in this sense because otherwise you end up with some weirdly froufrou China style.
15. A good thing to note with a skirt is the zips/closing. I hate those stupid little metal fasteners they use so I asked for a button to close it. I recommend that because the little metal things tend to fall off easily. Buttons are marginally better so ask for that. It's easy to change if they forget too! That's a good note for the pants too, buttons > little metal fasteners.

And that's my advice, useful or not. It's a lot to think about, which is why I'm saying off the rack on sale can be better... less things to think about and the workmanship is already there for you to see. You can tell if the buttons are close to falling off, or if the seams are uneven, you know what you're buying. It also takes a long time to get a tailored suit, which not everybody has.

In the end, you get what you paid for, so if you pay around 500yuan for your suit, you won't end up with something that looks like it cost a lot of money, but you can end up with an acceptable and wearable suit for less than you'd pay off the rack (make sure you bargain them down - it is China after all, it's all negotiable BEFORE the deal is made, but not afterwards), which is what most people are looking for.

City perspective: Guangzhou

I'm reading this interesting article on the influx of African immigrants into Guangzhou, China (here) and, having just been there and witnessed it myself, it kind of struck a chord with me. One little event that has stuck with me since my trip (bearing in mind my trip just ended two days ago) was going into a little noodle shop in Guangzhou and seeing a family of four: mum, dad and two little kids. For me it seemed pretty unusual because the mum was Chinese (probably Cantonese, and yes there IS a difference) but dad and the kids looked African. This was especially surprising for me, as you see the white male/Chinese woman combination a lot, but never this.

For the most part (my family included) the Chinese people that I've encountered are quite racist against Africans and people with dark skin. Or if not racist, ignorant at least. So it was a bit unusual. But for me, what made me look twice, three times, more, were the little kids speaking Chinese. I know that it would make sense for them to speak Chinese if they were brought up in China and attended a Chinese school but... I kept looking over and eavesdropping shamelessly, wanting to hear more.

I'm used to seeing/hearing foreigners speak Chinese now of course, but these little kids spoke Chinese like native Chinese children. Of course they were young so they spoke of child-like things and teased each other. It was all simple words and sentences, but if you closed your eyes you would think they were Chinese.

Is it strange that I found this situation so fascinating? It helped that the children were absolutely beautiful. Big eyes, long eyelashes, cute chubby little faces. Mixed babies are just the best.

I guess it's just something that I didn't expect to see in China, and it broke the usual stereotypes of white foreign males and Asian women that you always see around.

*edit*
I just realised that the tone and content of what I wrote doesn't quite match up to the link that I posted. However the link really is interesting! :o)

One month more

Any Les Mis fans may or may not get the reference in my title. I've now got that song stuck in my head, I'm thinking of writing some lyrics to go with my current situation, but that takes more motivation than I've got right now. This post is probably a bit out of the usual travel/life in China post that I usually put up here, but my LJ lifeline has been cut again so blog here it is!

I guess now that it's a real countdown/race to the end of my time here, I think I'm appreciating my time here a little more. Or maybe it's because I just came back from travelling around other unfamiliar parts of China and Shanghai seems familiar and home-like now. I've toyed with the idea, on-and-off, of staying here for longer instead of going back home and working, but it keeps coming down to the same thing. It'd just be financially crazy/unviable not to take the job I've got lined up waiting for me and instead living here with no income (I suppose I could find some teaching position in the interim before finding a likely low-paid job here in Shanghai) likely having to keep on living with the G'parents. And all the pro/con lists that I can make in my head don't help. In the end I should ask whether I want to stay or go, but the answer is that I don't really know. I want to stay, I want to go.

Part of me longs for the independence I'll get when I go back. Then I think of having responsibilities, paying bills, working full time. But then I switch back and think it'd be the same here, I'd have to work, but I'd be paid much less in a (most likely) less intellectually satisfying job (and with fewer work perks like flex time and leave days). But then there's family here, and learning Chinese, and all the novelty that comes from living in a new, big city. Versus the friends living in Canberra that I've got and all the usual, cosy haunts that I've got around the 'Berra.

Sometimes in life you get these forks in the road and I know I'm the type of person who, no matter how happy/satisfied I am along my other path, will always wonder what would have happened if only I'd gone the other way. But that's what keeps life interesting, is it not? The endless possibilities, the what might have beens, the what will bes?

I know I'm going back, but it's interesting to speculate on what it could be if I didn't.

***
In other news-worthy items (or not, depending on your perspective) I just got back from travelling in southern China - Guilin, Yangshuo and Guangzhou. While I don't think I got out of the actual travel what most gushing tourists get (various over-awed and excited exclamations of "oh wow isn't the view BREATHTAKING?" and "aren't Chinese minority cultures SOOO fascinating?" Or as one American guy sitting at a table in a small, but touristy restaurant in a village near the Dragon's backbone terraces "this chicken is the best chicken I've ever tasted... it's ruined all chicken for me for LIFE!") it was good to see other parts of China, besides Shanghai and Beijing. I was dragged to a few smaller Chinese towns near Shanghai when I was younger, but I didn't really appreciate them at the time.

In some ways Chinese cities are all the same. Lots of tall buildings, all in that kind of ugly Chinese modern architectural style (i.e. with haste overtaking taste as the final say in how it all looks); a bit of foggy smoggy-ness in the skies; the centre of the city having big, wide roads with stores and restaurants and hair dressing salons galore; and the scads of Chinese people busily roaming the streets. But if you look a little closer I think you can see some of the differences too. And that's what makes it interesting.

I think it helped me realise that I'm a bit of a city gal. Nature is nice when it's sunny and beautiful and the birds are chirping (not too loudly, that's just annoying) and you can wear t-shirts and shorts outside, but when it's cold and rainy and you're miserable and gloomy, it's not all it's cracked up to be. I'd rather be inside next to a fire or a heater with a hot drink and a good book than outside roaming the moors to see some foggy greenery and getting all rosy cheeked and red-nosed.

China - settling down

I finally have internet set up at my grandparent's place in Shanghai so I'll be able to update on my doings in China! And blogspot works here which is good. No LJ but I'll live without it.

I'd like to write something interesting about first impressions etc but then I've been to Shanghai a few times now, so it's not really first impressions at all. I had forgotten what China was like though and from reading my Lonely Planet I guess I'd recreated a very different Shanghai in my head. In reality, Shanghai, although modern, is still a Chinese city, making it VERY different from other, Western cities. I guess because New York, LA, San Fran, although they weren't the same, all had that essential Western city look to them that made me almost feel like I was at home in Australia. Even Mexico City, despite the armed guards with guns (eep!) and the street stalls selling tacos and other various tasty Mexican street meats, was kind of European looking.

But Shanghai is... well you definitely know you're in China. Because it's so quickly developing I thought that perhaps a lot of the inequalities between rich rich and poor poor had disappeared, at least in terms of buildings and infrastructure. However you can still find tall skyscraper apartment buildings next to little shanty type hut things. Although I guess there are less than there used to be. And then you've got all the little fresh food markets, with people selling a whole range of vegetables (yum) and then big slabs of meat just hang out on wooden blocks (not so yum).

So far my classes are ok. I'm in this weird situation of having much better spoken and listening skills than written and reading skills but because of the way the system works here I am all on the same level for all. Not very well organised I suppose, although I have been told some people mix and match classes, but generally have to figure it out on their own. It's good to learn some proper grammar having never really properly studied Chinese before. Just dribs and drabs of when my mother and grandmother tried to teach me, as well as the very uninformative lessons I took at a Chinese school back when I was 11.

Haven't properly made friends yet, but have a few people I talk to in class who are quite nice. I already have family and other connections in China so it's not too lonely. Also meeting up with Xixi in Qingdao was good. It did make my slowly developing Chinese a lot worse, as I didn't have to speak Chinese for about 5 full days! Every day you speak you gain so much, and every day you don't you lose so much. Probably the internet is a bad thing too as it means I'll spend more time in front of it and less trying to talk to my grandparents. Oh well, I'll try to limit myself, and anyway they always vegetate in front of the TV every evening.

Now should study for a dictation test tomorrow!